Blu-Ray has won the Hi-Def war!

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Post by Randall » January 6th, 2008, 1:06 pm

Hey, I didn't "need" a PS3. :) I'm not a gamer at all. But the PS3 is probably the best Blu-ray player out there, at a great price. It's also basically a media server, in case you ever wish to download other media content onto it. And, it has wireless Internet, which is prety cool and makes updating easy. And, should one ever want to play Lego Star Wars, then you can do that too.

Of course, by the time you're ready to buy, there should be other up-to-date players available for a decent price.

Blu-ray has three regions. North & South Am, Japan, and part of Asia are in one; Europe and Africa in another; and the third includes China and Russia. I don't know about the PAL issue.

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Post by James » January 6th, 2008, 3:05 pm

Another big "pro" in PS3's favor is that Sony is doing a great job of keeping it updated with the latest firmware. The built in wireless internet makes that easy. Plus having a web browser on the TV is kinda handy occasionally.

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Post by Ben » January 6th, 2008, 4:08 pm

Okay guys...you're leaning me towards the PS3... ;)

Is it really a good "player" player? I remember the PS2 was very unreliable with DVD playback initially.

If I went for a US PS3, would it allow me to use it here or would be "optimized" for the US (the way some websites know if you're trying to access from Europe and try and re-direct you to the Euro-version of the site)?


Sorry, Rand, I knew you didn't "need" one...just easier to put it that way. I probably would never have a need for the gaming side, but the add ons sound cool. Is there no set-top that does all this? Then again, for the price, I may as well have the <I>option</I> of gaming even if it doesn't get used.

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Post by James » January 6th, 2008, 7:57 pm

I'm fairly ignorant of all the PAL issues with things like this so look into that. I know there is a separate PAL player for the European market.

I think most people agree it is one of the best "players". It is very overpowered for a BD player since gaming requires it, and that translates to faster load times than every other player I know of. As for any unreliability issues on the software side, unlike the PS2 Sony can (and does) fix things through firmware updates.

The web browser should not care anything about where you are when visiting regular websites - though websites might redirect you base on your IP address. The issue here will be does the PS3 know where you are in regards to updating itself. Not sure about that. Actually, you can download the firmware updates off Sony's website and install them via a USB stick so I guess that's a way around that problem.

One issue that you may want to know about that effects me greatly is the remote control. The PS3 does NOT include an IR port for receiving remote control signals - it uses Bluetooth. There are advantages to this but for people like me that have spent $250 on a universal remote and don't want to have more than one lying around it is a pain! Just this week I got a third party USB add-on that adds a IR port for accepting remote control signals, but there are some controls that it can not recognize that still require the original remote.

A few more things in it's favor you might not know about:

- Besides several other formats, it now plays DivX movie files (a firmware update added this about two weeks ago)
- It has several memory card slots, great for looking at pictures from your camera on the big screen
- It plays SACDs. Requires an HDMI connected receiver to get the full benefits of the format.
- If you want to get really geeky, you can install Linux on a separate partition of the hard drive.

The Wikipedia page has more details on which models support which features.

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Post by Ben » January 6th, 2008, 8:56 pm

"It plays SACDs"

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... ;)

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Post by GeorgeC » January 6th, 2008, 11:02 pm

Ben,

From all I've heard, the PS3 is supposed to be very reliable with playback of all optical media formats that it's compatible with (Video CD, DVD, and Blu-Ray). The unit has not had the associated headaches, red rings of deaths, and other hardware/software blowouts that the Microsoft XBox 360 has had. The percentage of defective units is definitely lower for the PS3.

Sony intended the PS3 to be reliable and built it to be so. The hardware does have heating issues but automatically turns itself off when it gets "too hot" and will restart next time you boot up when it's cooled down off enough. A way to get around this is to stick to shorter movies (3 hours or less) or buy a cooling fan. I chose to buy a cooling fan to be on the safe side and prolong the life of the system. Cooling fans can be had for $30 or less. It's better to stick to cooling units that are one piece (like the Pelican model) than to go with two-piece units. The two-piece Nyko cooling fan I initially bought from a store for my PS3 just didn't fit snugly to the system's contours so I returned the fan and exchanged it for a Pelican one-piece unit with auto cooldown.

As far as speed PAL/NTSC issues go, I can't really tell you anything. As far as region coding is concerned, I CAN tell you about what I've read online...

Yes, there is region coding on Blu-Ray. No getting around that. The way it works, though, is that world regions are divided into letters. The US and Japan are Region A, Europe and most of the world are Region B, and Region C hardly counts...(!) Written into the rules of Region Coding for Blu-Ray, however, is a mandatory corporate responsibility to REMOVE the Region Locks one year after films are released on Blu-Ray. So, yes, the Blu-Rays are technically region-free on reprints one year AFTER the original release.

Several governments have written rules to get around Region Coding and have allowed open-region playback units to be sold within their borders. I know Australia's government passed one of these laws for DVD and I'm assuming they're adopting similar practice for standalone Blu-Ray players, too. This will not affect videogame players, though.

Unfortunately, region coding also still holds for DVDs in hi-def units. PS3 units bought in the US will only play Region A Blu-Rays and Region 1 DVDs. Japanese PS3 units only play Region A Blu-Rays and Region 2 (Japanese NTSC standard) DVDs. Whether anybody will come up with a firmware crack or hardware fix to eliminate region coding on the PS3 is beyond me, but I wouldn't take a chance on turning my unit into a $400-$500 paperweight by cracking it open! Besides, I'm happy enough that I'm in Region 1 (DVD) and Region A (Blu-Ray). The situation with Blu-Ray now is the way I wish it had been with DVD from that start!

As far as I know, nobody ever came up with a totally reliable software method to defeat region coding on the PS2. The way most people have modded this system has been a combination of swap discs and minor shaving of plastic and installation of sensor "defeaters." It's actually pretty simple and much cheaper than buying an alternate region PS2 at any rate. Japanese PS2 units are still around $80 more expensive than American PS2s not including shipping. It's still about $70 cheaper (with shipping costs figured in) to just buy a swap kit for PS2s.

Unfortunately, region coding for DVD does affect four of my PS2 game DVDs (Japanese imports unavailable in US editions) so I've decided to keep both of my modded American PS2 units. Besides, stores are paying $30 tops for used PS2s nowadays so it's not worth it for me to unload those systems. They're still working fine for game playback and I've never bothered to use them as dedicated DVD players.

While others have told me they've had no issues with PS2 DVD playback, that hasn't been the case for me. It's a great game machine but doesn't meet my minimum DVD playback standards. It seems to have issues with some DVDs that are dual layer and have special features. For vanilla, single layer DVDs it's fine, but ask it to do much more than that and it's not so good.

FYI, virtually every Hi-Def DVD playback machine (HD-DVD or Blu-Ray) has had a firmware update or two. This will continue to happen every few months until all the technical issues are resolved for Hi-Def playback. Fortunately, the PS3 and every brand-name Blu-Ray has support built in for firmware updates. It's been so easy for me to update the PS3 through USB ports that I've got no major complaints. The instructions for PS3 firmware updates are very clear on the Sony site and as long as you follow them, it's no problem at all.

Unfortunately, if you bought one of the first-generation HD-DVD players, all the firmware updates in the world will not make those systems HDMI-/ 1080p compliant. At most you'll get 1080i output since they were built cheaply... Every PS3 model and Blu-Ray standalone player I'm aware of has had 1080p support since day one. HDMI support was a big issue with PS3 buyers and they forced Sony to upgrade every PS3 model with HDMI support BEFORE the launch of the system in 2006.

FYI, you don't have to buy a PS3 to play Blu-Ray discs. The only reason most of us on the board have gotten the PS3 is to kill two birds with one stone (get a hi-def game system AND a hi-def video player). If you're only interested in video playback, then a PS3 is somewhat more expensive solution for hi-def. Sony does have a cheaper Region A Blu-Ray player available for under $300 American and there is at least one other sub-$300 Blu-Ray player as well. If money is no object, other manufacturers have Blu-Ray units that are in the ballpark of $700+. I know Pioneer also makes Blu-Ray players, too, and they're a fairly reputable brandname, too.

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Post by Randall » January 7th, 2008, 1:24 am

FYI: The new, cheaper 40GB PS3 runs with a cooler chip, from what I have read, so there should be no more heating problem. On the other hand, that model carries no slots for media cards (and, for gamers, is not PS2 compatible). The slot issue can be solved with a USB stick, though, as there are two USB slots in the front of the unit.

And I wouldn't say that the PS3 is expensive at all when you consider what it gives you. I got mine for $399, including a free game and HDMI cable. (Plus a remote for $20.) Before buying a Blu-ray player, also be sure to know about the Profile issues. Some early Blu-ray players, now selling cheaply, will not be able to be upgraded to support new features. Others could maybe be updated, but the manufacturers may never offer updates. Your best solution is to either go with the PS3, or a new player that will be Profile 1.1 compliant at least (preferably 2.0), and match your system well enough to get the full audio experience (Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio). e.g. think about whether both the Blu player and your current receiver are HDMI 1.3 compatible, etc.

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Post by Josh » January 7th, 2008, 7:38 am

Where do you guys learn all this info? I'm impressed! :)

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Post by Randall » January 7th, 2008, 8:04 am

I mostly go to www.hidefdigest.com , as well as their forums. There are lots of other online sources too.

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Post by Ben » January 7th, 2008, 8:50 am

Thanks guys!

I'm definitely going Blu and have no interest in HD-DVD now (or the game possibilities of any of the PS machines).

The PS3 sounds like the way to go as a substantial "entry level" deck, and the regional coding is important as if I want to play the vast collection of regular DVDs I already have in 1080p upscaled resolution then I will need to go with an imported US console.

Down the line I may look at a Pioneer (my manufacturer of choice) or a Sony player for any other needs I may have. I'm also waiting at least a couple of months for us to move so that I can rebuild a theater from the ground up, so by then things should be even more steady, reliable and easier to pick, and I can really go to town on what I need (and want!) ;)

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Post by GeorgeC » January 7th, 2008, 10:18 am

Well,

At least with the PS3 you can play import games (Japanese) on an American PS3 system fairly easily and also still play the Region 1 DVDs. That goes to say nothing of the Blu-Ray compatibility, too -- although I don't plan on buying many Japanese Blu-Rays since the disc market (apart from games) is still ultra-expensive in Japan and will continue to remain so. Expect to pay a premium of at least $20-$30 more per disc from Japan on top of MSRP for the US. Yeah, there are NO DISCOUNTS for brand-new movie disc releases from Japan. Anime DVD/Blu-Ray prices are even worse than live-action in Japan unless they're regular Studio Ghibli releases through Disney...!

It was frustrating as heck that Sony made all the game importers (such as myself) jump through hoops to play Japanese exclusives on previous-generation PlayStations.

I haven't imported as much this past generation of systems as I did when we were in the 32-bit PS1/Sega Saturn era, but I am happy that all Japanese and American games are Region A. No problems playing the inevitable import games based on my favorite fighting game or anime series which will inevitably not be available for sale in the US!

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Post by Ben » January 7th, 2008, 12:50 pm

My basic requirements will be hi-def Blu-ray movies and upscaled Region 1 DVD compatibility. Nothing more.

Anything on top of that is a bonus, so if a US PS3 can essentially do that - and it can - then the wireless net, games, etc, are all things that may come in handy in future.

When the time comes to purchase, I'll be sure to look at the Profile set up, card slots and hard drive space. I like what I've been reading on the PS3 and it seems going with a US device is the way forward to me for ultimate compatibility and disc availability. I can get a dirt cheap secondary player if need be in the future.

Thanks GC! :)

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Post by GeorgeC » January 7th, 2008, 1:31 pm

Oh yeah,

The PS3 will upscale regular DVDs -- and it supposedly does this well, too. Of course, a regular DVD will never look as good as a hi-def DVD because of the stretched pixels that were really meant for only 480p at best. It shouldn't make much of a difference for TV animation like Hanna-Barbera, but it will be noticeable for some animated features and a lot of live-action I'd bet.

I can't really comment more on the upscale feature since I don't have a hi-def TV set yet. That's in the queque for this next year if the prices fall enough on a model I'm comfortable with.

The upscale also works with PS1 games (compatible with ALL models of PS3 in the US) and the PS2 titles (compatible only with the 80GB and 60GB PS3's -- the 60GB is superior since it has built-in PS2 circuitry).

But it's the DVD upscaleability you're concerned about.

No question the PS3 was very decisive in the Hi-Def format war -- most Blu-Ray players sold in the States ARE PS3s --, but now it's time for Sony and the third party companies to release AAA game titles in addition to the six they've released the first year the system was out.

It's telling for me in a way that I have more Blu-Ray titles playable on the PS3 than I have games! (Same thing happened with my PSP which I ultimately abandoned. Now I use the iPod for portable on-the-go movies in addition to portable music playing.) Half those titles were free-in-the-mail with a PS3 purchase (Superman the Movie, Ultraviolet, Hart's War, Pirates of the Carribean 1, and American Psycho), and the other five are store-buys with two being a two-for-one sale deal (Spider-Man 3 and 300).

The number of deals in stores and online for discounted and free Blu-Ray titles is insane. At least the Blu-Ray library is big enough that you have a better than 50/50 chance of actually getting a GOOD film on sale!

Price and quality of gameplay has kept me from getting more PS3 games in addition to Ratchet & Clank Future. I wish the discounts would kick in on the older PS3 titles that ARE good!

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Post by Ben » January 7th, 2008, 3:14 pm

I'll be picking my BR purchases carefully, at least on catalog titles.

I don't see the point in getting things like Dinosaur or The Wild at this point, unless extra features come into play at any point, because those films only get watched a couple of times a year if that.

It's mainly titles where there are exclusives that I'll be hunting for first: Chicken Little, the CineExplore Pixars, etc, and the sure-to-be-good-looking ones, like the Pirates trilogy, Blade Runner, Close Encounters...

As for new titles, I'll start stocking up no those, but it'll still be a title-by-title basis for me on if I go standard or hi-def.

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Post by James » January 8th, 2008, 1:12 am

Despite the definitive tone this is still just a rumor at the moment.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dc409afa-bd75 ... ck_check=1

"Paramount is poised to drop its support of HD DVD after Warner Brothers’ recent backing of Sony’s Blu-ray technology, in a move that will sound the death knell of HD DVD and bring the home entertainment format war to a definitive end.

Paramount and DreamWorks Animation, which makes the Shrek films, came out in support of HD DVD last summer, joining General Electric’s Universal Studios as the main backers of the Toshiba format.

However, Paramount, which is owned by Viacom, is understood to have a clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp that would allow it to switch sides in the event of Warner Bros backing Blu-ray, according to people familiar with the situation"

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